Interview with Doug Bewsher

hi this is Bob Samuels fan of tech

connector connector provides

efficiencies in actionable intelligence

for b2b légion marketers and their

agents we’ve partnered with serious

decisions to bring you wisdom from

leading account based marketing thought

leaders to that end I’m happy to

introduce you to Doug Buescher CEO of

lead space and intelligence CDP the

customer data platform that guy’s some

cool background successes at Salesforce

in Skype Doug it’s a pleasure to speak

with you how are you today I’m doing

very well thank you Bob how are you

doing very good it’s a it’s a pleasure

to speak with you we’ve run across each

other at some of these events along the

way I know you’re up the road in San

Francisco so it’s it’s it’s pleasure to

speak with you and I know you’ve got a

lot of a lot of great wisdom to share on

a VM for the people that don’t know you

very well could you give a little bit

the background about where you’ve been

and along the way and what you kind of

learned and what your basis of knowing

about the VPN world sure absolutely

so currently I’m the CEO of a company

called lead space so we’re a customer

data platform for b2b sales marketing

but my background has always been

actually as a practitioner so previous

to this I was actually the chief

marketing officer for Salesforce as we

were really starting to get into the

marketing cloud on the marketing space

through the acquisition of ExactTarget

and others and the transformation

happening there prior to that I was the

chief marketing officer for Skype big

b2c brand obviously and we sold it to

Microsoft and but at the same time what

people often don’t realize is also the

connection there to what we were doing

at b2b and how we were actually getting

enterprises and companies to start

adopting you know Skype is a tool within

the organization very much what people

used to call which I think it’s kind of

gone away but this concept of

consumerization of IT

that even before that I was actually

leading McKinsey’s CRM practice here in

San Francisco just in the back in the

days when everyone was like I wonder if

this email is a thing and everyone was

trying to figure out if you remember

those stories about multi-channel

there’s a single strategy channel

strategies and things and back in the

kombu so very much been on the

practitioner side but now excited to be

on the situation of actually building

the software in their customer data

platforms to help b2b marketers do their

job

so it’s wonderful that you have the

practitioner background and and now your

solution provider so and your background

with those companies Skype and and so of

course in particular Beijing they did

pretty well so on helping them be

successful and I’ve heard great things

about about late case as well so as far

as lead space goes with what where do

you play in the ABM world everybody’s

got different impressions of what ABM is

what what is ABM tu and and with were

they were displeased Facebook play in

that and what they’re offering

sure I mean it’s a great question

because I still think there’s a lot of

you know questioning in terms of what

the heck is this ABM thing right even

you know that account based marketing

management account based everything all

these kind of different descriptions and

the way I look at it is very much like

how you can look at CRM so CRM customer

relationship management is the one hand

both a strategy right everyone is about

building customer relationships with all

of their customers and you could argue

that the most important tool in customer

relationship management is a tool like

gain site right which is about managing

the relationship after you’ve built you

know a customer engagement and at the

same time there is this kind of generic

category which is actually Salesforce

automation mostly which Salesforce

pioneered which is often people also

call CRM so even in CRM

it’s confusion between a business

strategy and a tool right and I think we

see the same in ABN right there is most

of our customers and their companies

like Microsoft and Oracle and others are

doing ABM strategies right they are

basically trying to move from a what I

would call an inbound lead flow inbound

content marketing kind of stuff which

generates leads to much more of an

account based approach which is you know

understand your town and all that kind

of stuff now there are some tools

typically people might put into that you

know ad role which just got rebranded or

demand base or in a terminus which are

basically ad platforms the target at the

account level right and they have sort

of you know taken that word rate account

based marketing but they’re very very

different kinds of tools and then

there’s a load of other people coming

out so so I think it’s important for

people to distinguish between a business

strategy or marketing strategy and you

know one or two of these tools that

being said whether you’re doing CRM or

ABM behind all of that the starting

point is I think we know you know I mean

your experience as well creating the

right data foundation and the right

analytics that comes out of that whether

you’re doing an inbound marketing

strategy and ABM marketing strategy

prospecting or working with your sales

organization or anything if you don’t

actually as far as to and say if you

don’t have the right data foundation

then everything else you can do sucks

and so that’s what we’re doing is we’re

providing a customer data platform that

enables all of these different

strategies to do that much more

effective and and I believe you you you

have some excellent important data and

to you do you blend it with the first

quarter data to make have that

combination yeah so so I believe and I

think if you you know look at a lot of

the research out there at the moment if

you’re looking at customer data platform

and that’s true if you’re looking in the

BBC world but increasingly actually in

the b2b there’s a couple of things that

you really need to kind of get right

right so first is that first point it

has to be data agnostic and so you know

we work with over 70 different data sets

right but it’s integrating great account

level data companies like DMB and

others who are promoting technocratic so

a ton of different company level data

sets right integrating person level data

sets about contacts and people so

working with you know likes and zoom

info discover and many others to get

that company that contact data set and

then getting the right intent data sets

whether that’s onboard ooty proud or

many others there but you’ve got to be

agnostic to that and then bring that

together and then do really that

identity resolution to create a single

golden record if you want which is kind

of what everyone’s been doing and then

be able to activate that into all those

endpoints you need to activate that data

into let’s say an ABM engagement

platform to be able to activate that in

Salesforce and if your marketing

automation platform into your ads

whatever else and then you’ve got to

apply a I on top of all of that machine

learning which we can talk more about

how you do that in order not just to be

able to not just little rules-based

integration but really make sense of it

it but also then to be able to make good

recommendations so that your sales

marketing team can take better

activities and and so that that channel

agnostic data agnostic AI driven

customer they platform is I think where

the world is going and really what lead

space is focused on delivering for our

customers okay

well now you got me curious about AI and

machine learning are you a are you a

predictive analytics company can you

play in in that space with $0.06 and

lattice and so forth well you know five

years ago everyone was talking about

predictive analytics right and I think

that category is dead so I’ve always

said and if you know since I started in

this job you know coming out of

Salesforce predictive analytics is a

feature that enables a business

objective it’s not a company in another

cell so if you look at some of those

companies yeah you’ve got $0.06 know

them well but they’ve really pivoted

towards being much more of a you know a

being engagement right building ads

collecting some intended data figuring

out how to close that loop so they

really much more complete in the ad ABM

and world these days

latias absolutely like ourselves has

taken our ability to do this level of

machine learning predictive analytics

and so forth into sold

the data problem building customer

dating problems so we see ourselves very

much quit and then companies that didn’t

figure it out right minute ago they just

shut down because they didn’t really

have a business value proper wishing

radius just shut down because they

didn’t really have a value so I think

that the guys who didn’t really figure

out what the business use case was like

six seconds ourselves and ladders have

have ended up well not being still in

business

oh and ever with everything you know so

ever string another company in the space

I think is pivoted much more towards

being a small data provider and so using

again some of that predictive analytics

to figure out how do we get

understanding about you know small

companies and all this kind of stuff

which i think is a you know with a lot

of the larger data companies in the

market that we’ve talked about you know

the DMV’s and zoom discovers and other

data vendors that we all know right I

think there’s always been a bit of a

hole for you know how do I find

information on micro SM B’s and I think

that’s very much what I think ever

string has pivoted towards okay

interesting and so as far as AI goes

you’re again using using some sort of

data to identify what to do next or what

it wouldn’t say nature of the AI that

you’re a shorted so so AI is a wonderful

term so I I’m great I’m a great interest

in believer in this in terms of in some

ways what we’re doing is using machine

learning and things to automate the

process that you know a good salesperson

would do anywhere at some level we are

automating is what if you had a data

analyst in India or a good salesperson

they’d be doing anyway but let me give

you a specific example of that so you

know a lot of our customers are looking

for some pretty simple data so you know

for example they want to understand

what’s the revenue of the company in

order to be able to effectively route

that to the right sales team or to the

right engagement strategy or whatever

right and when they do that you know

often they get these massive data

disparities between you know one team is

using one data source and other changing

and other data store

of which there are many and often that

creates light how do you solve that

problem well what we can do and we’ve

done and news a I in a census we take

many different data sources we might

have four or five different sources for

company revenue plus we connect that to

other things like we know how many

employees the company has and where it

is and some other information that might

exist about it how much coverage it’s

getting and we then use a machine

learning model to be able to estimate

with the highest precision what is

actually the revenue of that company and

then we can provide that back as well as

some of the underlying data so what that

means now is you know that’s what a

person is trying to do triangulate all

these different data sources figure out

what does it mean and get a best

estimate so they can run their business

and we’re using much more sophisticated

AI and machine learning to do that so

that’s a very simple example of how you

need to go beyond just rules-based

integration in order to make sense of it

but then you can go all the way up to

the highest level right so we also go

the next you know up to the level of

saying that’s usual of that data to

recommend a specific product that you

should be selling to a specific company

if they come to your website or the

sales persons engagements so this is big

spectrum but coming from the CRM world I

think it’s important to do you know

really see results with simple use cases

and then leather wrap if you get more

sophisticated very good interesting and

and you just made me think so you with

all your different data sources

obviously there’s going to be

differences so it certainly makes things

more complicated to figure out which

one’s the right answer but I suspect

you’ve got that pen down and imagine

that it has to do a lot with

triangulating and figuring out where the

where the most of the good sources are

or saying that the answer is and going

with that yeah and that life definitely

gets to greetings agreed life would be

easy right if you know all these data

there was one right data source but I

think you know even if I look at what

data or comm is doing right

why did Salesforce move away and

deprecated datacom because at the end of

the day just supplying DMV and jigsaw

data and saying that’s right in a way

the more and more and more data is

available to people I don’t think it’s a

long-term strategy so this this this you

know we’re very much in the world you

wouldn’t work with a company like us

unless you believe that more data is

better right and therefore the question

doesn’t become what’s the one right data

set if you believe that going by D and B

or zoom and be done with it but if you

think there’s more information to be had

then you’ve got to figure out how do i

how do I create signal from all this

noise that exists them and that’s a fun

problem right wait till you hear if

you’re in essence aggregating a lot of

the different data sources then coming

up with the radio answer which is a lot

of work

absolutely and all of our customers

right and we we actually run a study on

this which I’m happy to share you know

if you look at of markets here today

Adam and Jen talk to how the problem is

and I lived as well they spend the

second biggest time sync that they have

is managing data right and they’re not

doing that because they like it they

really want to get back to you know

running great campaigns and coming up

with creative ideas but they’re just

dealing with this mess of data not only

because they’re buying four different

data sets and they make no sense and

they can’t figure out how to do the

resolution but on top of that they’ve

got different data in Marketo and

salesforce and you know their ad

platform there and these are all siloed

data sets right so in a sense what our

vision is and I think where a lot of we

get requests from our customers is take

that off my plate right this is you know

people have built data warehouses that

doesn’t solve the problem either because

they’re just delegated that problem to

IT which is often not useful they’re

like if I could buy a solution that

solves that problem so I can stop

spending 60 percent of my time or

whatever or managing data and I can

spend 10% on managing the data through a

single feed and now I can go and worry

about how do I write a fantastically

compelling value proposition in my you

know email or my aunt or whatever that I

think is my point just on people that’s

why we’re trying to really makes a lot

of sense so let’s talk about ABM

implementation so I suspect you’ve been

a part of avian solutions and when you

were an implementer

yeah do you have any examples to share

of some of the successes or some of the

learning opportunities you came across

and and maybe you know some other

successes that you came from from some

of your clients that you’ve been able to

help them yeah absolutely I mean so I

think that people see value from ABM on

on lots of different levels right and

the simplest place that people see value

is in terms of more efficiency in the

way that they operate so you know we

have a couple of case studies one with

from a dynamic signal which is one of

our customers but another one from brain

central where what they were trying to

do is is basically just reduce the

amount of time and the incorrect

allocation of leads within an

organization in order to be able to

better route and manage and get the

right data if you were that’s the sort

of basic data management and typically

we’re seeing clients save up to 65 hours

a quarter sales rep in terms of being

able to do that which when you think it

was about 10% and say having another 10%

of STRs for companies which have

hundreds of them is a massive win right

and so so that’s one thing at the other

end we have clients like ASAP right who

are actually building tens right so they

go out and they say I’ve got a new

product they might be trying to sell

concur right they own a fantastic

HR software platform and they already

know the whole world right I mean SOP if

you’re not an SI PS database somewhere

I’d be surprised right and so you know

then the question is how do I find the

right products to sell so what they do

there is they are taking all the intent

data which is it’s actually increasingly

powerful source whether it’s placebo

effect we could talk about that but

they’re taking that information pass the

information they have in their first

party data sets and building models to

say ok these are the right accounts my

total audience and these are the right

accounts to go after with this

particular product so they’re building

product centric account scoring models

to find highly targeted accounts then

they expand that with the right personas

that they know right so the right people

within those accounts in order to be

able to activate and go after

because they need you know the

decision-maker let’s say HR yes you need

the HR leader but you need the IT person

for HR and these things often titles

that tell you that you’re going to build

these personas segments and then on a

weekly basis they’re pushing that out

into their sales and marketing systems

there are sales workshop right primarily

they may move on to SOP boxing flour

very soon which is very cool but you

know they will really do that in sales

at the moment in order to drive highly

targeted activities and actually enable

their sales teams and they’re they’re

seeing some great results and you know

they’re publishing some results on this

at the moment but they’re seeing some

really really strong uplifts in terms of

conversion on those leads so I think

different ways that people can actually

implement ABM and they’re all pretty

successful in terms of actually seeing

results beautiful and yeah let’s let’s

include some links to some of these case

studies when when we publish this

absolutely exploded yes wonderful so one

of the things that I hear is a challenge

as far as implementation people don’t

necessarily put in enough time upfront

on the planning stages of implementing

avians they think they can go out and

buy some quote-unquote ABM software and

there’s their answer and then also about

coordination with between sales and

marketing where some of your experience

is around around those and again some of

the successes and some of the pitfalls

to watch out for yeah absolutely would

look you know I’ve been a marketeer

right and sometimes you have a habit of

shiny object syndrome right especially

in any role and a function that tends to

be the highest turnover function so you

know often it’s like oh my god I’ve got

to find some dramatic solution that’s

going to solve all my problems right and

people have deployed this all through

time you know and and a doesn’t as you

say tend to work right you actually have

to do the hard work and have a strategy

put it in place all this kind of stuff

so you know within that context what we

you see is if people just do deploy an

ATM platform like a demand base what you

then rapidly create yes is targeted

account there

retargeting useful activity yes and

should you use a tool like the bomb base

or ask for somebody else to do it

absolutely but it doesn’t substitute

from a true AVM strategy that actually

starts from as we all said the data

first because all ABN does is other

crates otherwise creates just another

silo of data that you’ve got to compare

that with what you’re doing in

Salesforce we’re doing a market out and

these silos are what causes half

problems so I think everyone needs to

start from a much more holistic strategy

if I’m going after an account what is

the right way for us to engage it across

all my channels right and then how do I

build into that process the right data

then the right activation in order to be

able to do it in a coordinated way so

this level of data that orchestration

then execution I think it’s a very

important way to think through that at

the same time I am I do come from the

world where I remember my first job ever

was at Vodafone and somebody came in and

said hey you should take control of this

massive CRM migration where they’re

moving on to a new CRM platform Docs and

I knew at that point in time that that

was gonna be a three year journey right

and so you know and that is not a good

place to be because you’re not going to

see results for three years so as always

in the CRM or any marketing how do you

find that right balance between having a

strategy but at the same time executing

and seeing real results at the three to

six months and I think that’s a really

important balance for all marketers and

whatever technology they’re deploying is

to be able to go through a test and

learn and iterate process and at the

same time do that with their North Star

of where they want to go and and I see

that with large companies getting there

I think one of the great things that you

know we can do and you can do and the

analysts are trying to do is is make

that a more standard roadmap because at

the moment there isn’t actually a

particularly good playbook for doing any

of this stuff

and I think that’s the maturity of the

industry that we are starting to see

actually over the last few years like

that thank you

so you mentioned earlier about you know

making sure you can read the different

personas is that is it and then it

there’s no system out there that can

help you with your messaging you may

there may be some systems to help

figuring out who the person is or the

key stakeholders are but knowing what to

talk to them about do you use your AI to

help figure out either this the grey

cloak or was the right messages what it

would are there but how do you how do

you know what their key pain points are

I guess yeah so so one of the wonderful

fallacies about ABN is that it’s all

about the account which of course is not

true it’s still people buy things not

companies right and so one of the

fallacies is that we see it knowing that

GE as an example is a good account for

you to go and sell to is a actually

pointless thing to know right unless you

know actually for example you know the

specific buying centers within that and

more importantly unless you know the

specific personas of people within those

buy incentives are going to help you

can’t implement an ABM strategy so a lot

of people thinking about ABM and think

that people don’t matter but in fact

people are more important than ever in

the idea of how do I build this strategy

right so yeah and so this this is where

Li to account matching and connecting

the dots and then figuring out the right

persona but what we also see then is as

you think about personas what does

everyone do today they they don’t

actually you know they take a whole

later you know keywords or something for

titles to try and figure out who are the

right personas but again we’re now if

you take the b2c analogy you can get

much more sophisticated in the way that

you can build out the personas so leave

space on the persona level we have about

200 personas that just add in a box so

if you want to find Adam and Jen

professional if you’re selling like we

do to commander and professionals you

know just looking for somebody who has

the VP of demand gem is useful but maybe

it’s the VP of Marketing but then you

need to look at their skills and

expertise to figure out what they have

skills around Marketo right well that

will indicate to me that they’re in the

persona of the man gem beyond just what

their title says so again this is

another machine learning AI driven

algorithm to put everyone just like it’s

being seen in Buddha see in

b2b context for specific personas to

give you one specific set of numbers in

this we work with Microsoft to allocate

their various people that are coming in

as inbound leads for them into specific

personas so that they can drop them into

targeted nurture programs targeted email

and other nurture programs they’ve seen

a 90 percent increase in engagement by

making sure that the messaging whatever

that messaging is fits the persona

because if I’m talking to the developer

versus a IT decision maker even though

they may look kind of similar in titles

and things boy the messaging and the

content that they want is very different

so while we’re not a Content platform we

work with great content platforms that

there’s Adobe or path factory or others

in order to figure out the content and

to be able to to create it your

understanding that persona is what’s

going to drive also much higher

conversion rates and so know this is the

magic that’s been in b2c and has been

enabled by these data platforms we’re

seeing I think and it’s super exciting

not just for us as marketers because we

get better results but boy as a customer

you know I get inundated as I’m sure you

to Bob messaging if we actually had

something that was more relevant and

wasn’t just based on really very

simplistic rules to what they send you

that will be helpful for me because I

actually want to know what are the right

tools even as a CEO that I should be

using in my company so I want targeted

messaging not just being spammed the

whole time all right right today and I

think that’s that’s a great key if the

message has to be relevant in any time

that would be ideal that to know

someone’s in marketers or certainly

thinking about things so so to figure

out the messaging I guess you can go out

and figure out signals of where people

are at and for the company and then

based on the the roles of the person

didn’t have an idea that you know what

their angle is if they’re you know

focused as the security aspects or

saving money or saving time or whatever

but just trying to trying to figure out

what their guess I guess what angle this

person what will be relevant for them

and how how to say it as a tricky thing

did you say there are some tools out

there you mentioned Adobe and there was

another company that can help with the

messaging yes another company I was

mentioning was past factory with which a

lot of our customers use there’s others

out there you know the kind the content

management kind of companies because you

know what I don’t believe I think we’re

a long way away you know in reality from

some machine telling you know saying at

this point in time this message to this

person in this way is going to be the

answer it’s it’s gonna move there right

and we see this you know in some of the

big scale b2c ad deployments which is

probably 10 years ahead of where b2b

marketing is but we’re a long way away

from that so you know I still believe

that as a marketeer you have to

understand your value proposition and

come up with really consistent messaging

to different personas but then the

ability to target that messaging to that

right persona that’s the magic right as

you say and at the right time right and

so yes you go out can you build your

three or four or five different personas

with their specific messaging you put

that into a tool like you know test and

target or content you know some other

content management system and that’s

what path actually can do as well and

then you use the data that comes out of

your customer data platform that’s

connecting data from your first party

like your Salesforce from your Marcato

in every on and all that third party

data to say okay this is the right

company and they’re in this industry and

whatever they’re exhibiting this kind of

intent right so they’re happened to be

looking for this kind of information or

whatever and these this is the specific

persona of the person you’re talking to

and you put that together in an

algorithmic way with route with the

machine learning model to say this right

bit of content fits with that person

right so it’s not we’re still not down

at the you know design an email on the

fly kind of concept maybe we’ll get

there someday but you’re starting to get

the right connection between

personalized content and the ability to

understand your audience and that’s I

think

everyone’s very trying to put together

and I think the more progressive market

is really starting to nail that they say

you know some of the customers we see I

mean HP’s doing an amazing job where

this is the moment right and so you know

I think that’s what everyone’s trying to

get to but it’s it’s a hard journey and

I wouldn’t try and sort of say tomorrow

we’re gonna get there because you better

start putting you know solve the simple

problems versus yeah but that I would

think that’s the Holy Grail as far as

just knowing knowing what to say how to

say it when to say it what what what

channels to say it with you know is it a

phone call is that an email is it a a

web messaging social you know just

figuring out you know not only the win

in that how and who but where I guess

right absolutely and so everyone is

trying to figure out the who when how

right you know Who am I trying to all

get you know target the company in the

persona level what is the right time you

know are they in market and we seeing

that kind of information from all the

various different behavioral and their

ten triggers that we have and then

what’s the right message to that person

that’s going to most engage with them

and that is both the choice of the

message and the channel right and you

know you’re now gonna get all three off

the bat so how do you start and I think

people start with the who right which is

and they start with building these

predictive models and TAM analysis and

all that kind of stuff at the account

and then they do the next thing same

thing at the persona level so they start

with that who the next thing they tend

to get on to sometimes it’s in the other

order is the when so they’re bringing

all this in tenth day there and intent

scores and so forth to say who’s

relevant and how and I think then the

final bit is the you know in what way

the right channel and the right

messaging so so I think people move for

it in that direction and so fit intent

and orchestration is another way of

looking at those three things but behind

all of that as we started this whole

conversation if you put crap data in all

of those recommendations are going to be

terrible right and so you know you’ve

got to recognize that the system in

terms of the engagement system is only a

kudos the data and intelligence you put

into it right and I think that’s you

know I think that’s where a lot of

people we see starting to solve the

problem yeah okay and then a couple

other questions so do you come up

against GDP are much is that does that

make things challenging for you at all

so it’s interesting GDP are is both a

challenge and an opportunity in our

space the biggest problem for GDP are

right now is actually on the intent data

sources so there’s a lot of work being

written around how much of the intent

data that people’re provides a bike is

non GDP our compliance so a lot of these

intent vendors are trying to sell you

know bid stream data or so forth and I

think that’s not GDP are compliant so so

I’d encourage everyone who’s listening

to make sure that you’re not buying

intent that’s not GDP are compliant the

the syndication ones that tech targets

and the the boom borås I think they’re a

really good job because they get opt-in

but some of these other vendors out

there aren’t getting opt-in and they’re

reselling as intent so intent is I think

the biggest issue for GDP are right now

and then you know because we are a

customer data platform we work with all

of our partners and really those

partners who are collecting the data are

really the ones that you know have to

make sure that their GDP are compliant

so so we work with all of them and I

think the system is working the flipside

is so that’s the risk and everyone’s

working through it you know we’re with a

lot of customers who are going through

that transition at the same time we also

see a lot of people are trying to figure

out how do they audit their data right

now right so for example they also want

to know okay so you know let’s let me

have a track on who this person is and

can we engage with them and the

information that we have and all this

kind of stuff so so there’s also a

really interesting emerging market

opportunity of everyone’s looking at

customer data platforms and otherwise to

be able to help them manage the the

auditing aspect of their GDP our

compliance because you know let’s be

honest as I say you know some of our

customers already know the universe

they’ve already had a conversation so so

in that situation they’re just trying to

make sure that

they keep that up to date and they’re

there making sure that they are in

compliance with all so so I haven’t seen

it have too much of an effect outside of

this intent question yet and I think

anyway the GTR regulations today and

mostly focused on the ad business and

the you know I think the place is going

to start is all that fact of where

people are tracking people’s behavior

without letting them know that fact and

then using that for targeting which is

you know massive industry on the BBC

sided it’s part of what we intent is

doing and you know I think that’s risky

for people yeah that’s good advice

so what is what’s your you’ve seen a lot

in these last several years and again

the topics they be in where do you think

things are heading what would we be

talking about when we talk about a be in

a year from well so first of all you

know if we go back ten years we were all

talking about prospecting right and hub

stock came out and invented effectively

content marketing and seven years ago we

all thought content marketing was the

solution right and then all the

marketing automation platforms came

along to deal with all these leads that

were coming in through content and they

built a business around that and then

everyone started talking about ABM right

which is you could argue just came from

the fact that all these marketing

automation platforms had no account

object to them right and so everyone’s

talking about our can based marketing

now right and I bet you in five years

we’ll all be talking about something

else okay so I don’t think think e/m is

like a oh my goddess you know the world

is different there’s gonna be the next

marketing strategy that comes along for

sure right so I think it’s important you

know no marketeer that’s worth their

salt is not doing prospecting and

inbound slash content marketing and ABM

it’s not an either/or it’s all of the

above all right and they’ve got to be

consistent and they’ve got to work

together I think the next area that we

will start to see a lot more engagement

here is on the advertising side of the

house which I think it’s still

relatively nascent rate in terms of how

do we actually take the kinds of

segments and the kinds of understanding

and deploy that through

and into better advertising kind of

approaches and you know what we can see

today and just just to give you a very

simple example of this it used to be

that match rates one of the things that

we do for our audiences as we build

these these these audiences and these

specific segments of people so that you

can run that in a marketing campaign or

in a sales campaign but you can also

deploy that into your ad platforms but

it used to be that the match rate on

that might be 25 percent that is

recently skyrocketed and now you can

find maybe 60 percent of that audience

right on social or elsewhere right and

that really means that now I can

outreach with a proper engagement

strategy through advertising and so

forth as well so we’re starting to see

the match rates and the ability to

identify and connect with audiences

across many different medium go up a lot

right and that means I think we’re going

to see a lot more value in traction and

with some and see some of our customers

get great results not by targeting GE

because that’s a pointless exercise but

by targeting the right audience within

GE within the right buying Center for

the products and services so that they

can get the information that they need

that’s going to require a lot of work a

lot of attribution work a lot of

measurement work there’s lots of stuff

that needs to make that success and then

finally I think the thing that the third

fifth thing you’re going to see is a lot

more change in orchestration what we’re

talking about in orchestration is a very

nascent business right but this question

that I if I put in you know I think

everyone’s going to have a customer data

platform that connects the data sets I

think in five years if you don’t have a

customer data platform that connects to

your CRM and to your marketing

automation you’re being at a major

disadvantage and then stuff people will

start working on how do I build these

recommendations and how do I orchestrate

across a multi-channel and this is where

you see Salesforce putting a lot of

effort with things like ExactTarget

where you see Adobe going down the same

route with I can’t they call it

orchestration manager which they just

launched in the last month right I think

you’re seeing a lot of work on this on

the b2c side and I think you’re going to

see the same coming on the b2b so I

think that’s where the next thing it’s

not like

ABM strategy it’s going to be

orchestration across many channels and

connecting the dots between your account

centric or the top-down content and lead

centric and then also prospecting a

maybe and then your advertising channels

say that I can get my customers to have

a much more consistent as our 360 view

and actually a real holistic engagement

with me as a customer so it’s exciting

times but molarity yeah and you

mentioned b2c and this reminds me how

far ahead b2c and b2b a lot of the

things we’re doing b2b would be if he

did a long time ago so I feel you have

that beauty background to draw from for

for sure

right I mean in many ways beater sees

much easier right you have a ecommerce

platform it’s you know we did that we

learned a lot of this stuff but at the

same time b2b is a much more

sophisticated set of channels right and

if your test slow trying to sell cars

what you know it’s called the considered

b2c purchase right that starts to look a

lot more by like do to be so you know I

don’t think it’s like b2b as the poor

citizen and you can see it’s b2c in many

ways has had an easier problem to solve

because it’s an ad ecommerce closed-loop

learning cycle problem a lot of the time

and actually being a see me to start

adopting a lot more of a b2b kinds of

engagement strategies right if you want

to do evangelism marketing or if you

want to run events to get people to come

and you know and so you know I think

these are some of the things that we

will start to see the to actually

sharing more stuff but you’re right in

the pure scale you know advertising kind

of centric thing we this is at least

five years ahead and also from the data

perspective yeah and like I said b2b is

more complicated there’s not as many

stakeholders and b2c

not as many types going not as

complicated a process absolutely

different for sure wonderful this is

good stuff back any other words of

wisdom before I let you go

yeah no I mean it’s you know final thing

I’ll say on this is you know I follow

that Gartner hype cycle a lot so if you

look at that stuff I was definitely

coming off you know the what they call

the peak of inflated expectations to the

plateau of productivity right and I

think you know my encouragement to

everyone is you know there’s a lot of

understanding this market is hard

sometimes because there is so much

innovation figuring out who’s doing what

but we’re coming out of the everyone

saying a lot of stuff and I think we’re

starting to see more and more customers

really see meaningful adoption of IBM

and CDP right and I think these are two

very distinct things that most b2b sales

and marketing teams need to start

thinking about do I have an ATM

engagement platform right you know Adam

on base or and had careful and do I have

a customer data platform that connects

the dots and breaks the silos because I

think that those will become two really

important pillars along with marketing

automation and CRM so we will see it as

a part of every single marketing stack

if we go forward to this so sometimes

experiments that also looked a real

results from real customer

fun time it’s a pleasure I look forward

to seeing you next month we’ll come up

and visit with you thank you again for

your for sharing your wisdom it’s been

awesome right

thanks Lou tunnel